Comments on: Man Vs. Art Episode 18! The Comics Debate. What are comics? What can they do?

By: Raul

Raul — Fri, 23 Apr 2010 02:26:13 +0000

I agree. I don’t think what is currently called a motion comic is correct. A color animatic or even limited animation sounds better. I was thinking “enhanced comic” perhaps. I guess I didn’t make myself clear. Sorry. I don’t like the term “motion comic” either. I would love to see what you project when you finish!
Thanks

By: Raul

Raul — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 03:52:56 +0000

Forgive me for being a jackass. My comment was way off and there is no excuse. In retrospect I shouldn’t have lumped in The deviant slide show comic with The Watchmen stuff. I didn’t know what else to call the Deviant comic. No need to apologize Luis! I confused you with my transition. The whole thing is confusing. I don’t know why they call stuff like The Watchmen thing motion comics. It isn’t a comic, it’s a bad cartoon. My whole point was Hey! there’s a new way to make sequential art stories! And since it’s in it’s infancy no one knows what they are doing! There is an opportunity for artists to step up and pioneer a new medium in which there are no rules yet! I find this very exciting and I want in.
So yes Luis, I agree with you.
thanks for making me think!

By: Luis

Luis — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 02:08:11 +0000

Okay, first I’m not trying to discredit you. That wasn’t a very nice thing to think of me.

I decided to re-read all our comments and re-listen to the podcast so I can better understand what we are both saying. I think that we are in agreement but I think we are not actually reading what we are saying to each other.

Also I was trying to figure out why I left a comment in the first place. Well, I figured it out. So I’m going to write out what I THOUGHT you were saying, which is why I left a post, and what I now believe you are saying. I will also point out where I made blunders in what I was writing to make it seem like I wasn’t paying attention.

In the podcast you made a VERY AWESOME argument as to why the Deviant art Flash comic is a comic. I AGREE WITH THIS COMPLETELY. Let me repeat, I LOVED THE ARGUMENT YOU MADE. IT WAS VERY SMART AND WELL THOUGHT OUT. I AGREE.

Okay now, after that is where I got confused. Around the 23:58 minute mark you started talking about “Motion Comics”. This was a very conversational transition. (THIS IS NOT A CRITIQUE ON YOU IN ANYWAY. I LOVE THE ADHOC STYLE OF YOUR PODCAST.) It SEEMED to ME at the time, that you were equating the Deviant Art Flash comic with the “Motion Comics” you put as examples during this time. You mentioned many in the style of the “Watchmen Motion Comic”. This is how I got confused, since it SEEMED to ME as if you where calling them comics. This is why I argued that I thought these “Motion Comics” were actually animatics.

BUT since then, you have written that if it has sound and motion, that they are NOT comics. Now I believe that you were merely talking about how they were poorly animated cartoons. Is this right? If I was to ask you if the “Watchmen Motion Comic” on Youtube is a comic, you would say it’s a “Ghettomated cartoon” or a “limited animation cartoon” right? If so, then we agree completely.

I must sincerely apologize for my lack of clarity. Especially since I also linked to Zuda which was a terrible example of the Deviant Art Flash like comic. I was under the false impression that Zuda comics where read one panel at a time. I should have followed my own link and made sure before I posted. My bad.

Also, please forgive me for NOT posting a link to the video review of the Marvel Comics comic book reader iPad app. I am rectifying the problem now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKynwgUOZJo

The reason I think it’s relevant to this discussion is because, not only can you read the full page as a regular comic but, in a similar (but not quite the same) way as the Deviant Art Flash comic, you can read a comic panel to panel.

I hope this clarifies everything.

By: Raul

Raul — Sun, 04 Apr 2010 05:12:30 +0000

Yeah I know. This isn’t what I meant. I said that the “motion comics” out there are not quite right. the closest thing to an ideal enhanced comic would be the deviant art example I posted. Everything else is just limited animation. No sound. No music. The only thing would be an occasional movement like a punch, or expression change just to enhance the mood. Simple. Simple. Simple. A comic book used to be a fifty cent treat a kid could fold up and stick in his back pocket. Cheap entertainment that was cheap to create and cheap to distribute. That was one of the things that made comics so cool. Disposable, simple, and fun. Elegant in their simplicity. Nowadays comics are too expensive and overly rendered and they take themselves way too seriously. So I was saying why not use today’s tech and make comics fun disposable and cheap like before? So kids can collect a ton of them and share them and talk about them. Only instead of going to the corner newsstand and dropping two bits, they go to Itunes or even Geeks and pay 50¢ to download an enhanced comics.

I know what is meant by a motion comic Luis. I think you missed the point of what I was talking about and just got hung up on semantics or on trying to discredit me. Trust me I researched this before I opened my mouth.
thanks.

By: Raul

Raul — Sun, 04 Apr 2010 04:54:07 +0000

I guess you weren’t paying attention. Those are just scanned comics. The slide show would show a panel at a time not a whole page.

By: Luis

Luis — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 02:55:52 +0000

…but speaking of the “Slideshow” type comics, check out the Marvel Comics app for the iPad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKynwgUOZJo

You’re dream of getting you’re “enhanced” classic comics is HERE.

By: Luis

Luis — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 02:44:27 +0000

Okay, well, that’s what I meant by a “Flash Slideshow” comic, which I have no problem calling a comic. I wouldn’t consider it “enhanced” really. It’s pretty much what DC is doing with it’s Zuda comics (http://www.zudacomics.com/) Usually what is meant by a “motion comic” is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUHARIh_RY8

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XvCCbpzc-o&feature=related

By: Raul

Raul — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:14:36 +0000

The link that started this whole thing at deviant art is a good example of an enhanced comic. The reader determines the timing. No sound. Only speech and thought bubbles, captions, lettered sound effects.

By: Raul

Raul — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:10:56 +0000

thanks

By: Raul

Raul — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:06:24 +0000

Thanks!

By: forex robot

forex robot — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 18:28:29 +0000

nice post. thanks.

By: Luis

Luis — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:46:27 +0000

Okay, then, I’m confused. Can you give an online example of an Enhanced Comic? (I like your term better).

By: Raul

Raul — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:29:56 +0000

It would be a fantastic way to introduce those great characters to today’s comic fans. Since it’s not too expensive to do, there is plenty of room for people to experiment with techniques.

By: Raul

Raul — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:11:49 +0000

If the Animatic had no sound and instead used balloons, captions and effects lettering it would be closer to a motion comic. I think the term is lame too. I only used the term so people would get what I meant. I’d rather call it an “Enhanced Comic.”
A proper motion comic is created from the start to be a comic not a TV show. Or it is Frankensteined from an actual comic book.

Most importantly in an “Enhanced Comic” the reader still controls the timing. An animatic has timing predetermined by a Director..
This is why I said that most of these types of comics are mediocre at best. Either folks are trying too hard to make it like an animated cartoon, or they are on the complete opposite side ignoring any animation elements that pertain. Some do. Balance must be brought to this force! Also the right people aren’t making them and everybody is still struggling to find a process and design.
It’s exciting and new!

By: Jim Lujan

Jim Lujan — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:00:01 +0000

Raul,

BEST IDEA you have EVER had …..putting the old bronze age /silver age comics on as MOTION COMICS! I love that idea. Can you imagine?? The 1970s Shang-Chi or Iron Fist/Power Man? Kirby’s Capt America or Black Panther? The Byrne /Claremont X-Men?? Marvel Team Ups? Obscure issues of stuff. Oh yeh…and thats not even counting DC!

You are SO RIGHT. There is so much cool classic material for them to mine. It would be fascinating. Id want them to use the original art. Keep each artists style. That would be exciting!

Goldmine!

By: Raul

Raul — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:53:36 +0000

Thanks. It flowed man.

By: Jim Lujan

Jim Lujan — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 19:13:34 +0000

This episode was OUTSTANDING! Proud to know ya!

By: Luis

Luis — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:17:54 +0000

I’ve been working on my own “Motion Comic” lately. And by “working” I mean, I’ve been trying to figure out how to write one that would be short enough to finish while being something that would satisfy me artistically.

Only thing I would argue, against what you said would be the term “Motion Comic” just never sits right with me. Does that mean that all the animatics the Simpsons has produced over the years should be called “Motion Comics”? Why not just call them Animatics?

I agree that a Flash “Slideshow comic” is a comic, but what is currently called a “Motion Comic” is actually a color animatic. Which is my next project.